from Daniel
to William Stewart
date Mon, Apr 17, 2006 at 10:07 PM
subject Re: Answer This Bible Contradiction
mailed-by gmail.com
William,
Thank you for putting the contents of the link back on you web site.
I see what you mean, and I think I see why our views deviate. fear is innate thus It is not wrong to fear. Fear, including fear of the unknown, comes from ignorance. Ignorance is the nature of fear. That is why the haunted house works; for a couple of times, at least. When you enter, you don't know what to expect, therefore you fear of being shocked unexpectedly; however, after you know when and what is going to shock you, and after you learn that what first shocked you was merely a plastic object in the shape of a life-like skeleton that had a couple of red lights in place of eyes, you suddenly develop understanding and fear disappears.
You fear because you Expect that there is something that is going to shock you, therefore claiming that you Know that there is something to expect, However you do not, and can not Know (even if someone else tells you) that there is something to expect that is going to shock you until you actually experience it yourself. And therefore to fear is to claim to Know something that you don't, and that is ignorant. That, however, does not mean that it is wrong or wicked to fear.
So, to answer the question:
Was it ignorant for me to fear what I did not know about?
Yes, because there was an assumption that there is actually something to fear. That assumption was not based on knowledge, and therefore it was ignorant to fear.
Is it bad or wicked to fear the unknown? Or does it mean that one is presumptuous? No; one may make a judgment, based on past experiences or from what one obtained from other sources, that there is something to be expected. That is caution. However it is not knowledge, and one may not Know what it is and therefore it is ignorant to state that one does.
A mere belief in something does not make it "knowledge." It can not be justified (by reason), and it is not necessarily true. You can state that you do Believe what something is, but you can not state that it is knowledge. Many times in history did people assume something to be knowledge or truth and it turned out to be a mere belief.
Your account has provided me with a clearer understanding of your decision.
You said that you assume that I reject G-d. I am puzzled by your reason for your assumption. I do state that I do not accept, however, I do not reject nor deny the Bible or G-d. To not accept does not mean to reject or deny, there is a difference. Do you see? It would be ignorant to say that I know that the Bible is wrong, since I can not prove that it is not.
I do believe in certain parts of the Bible, but I do not accept all that it teaches, and do not accept as truth everything that it reveal; I want to see why people do. I do not know if G-d exists, however that does not exclude the possibility that I believe in G-d or that He exists.
I am writing this not because I want to disprove your beliefs, but because I want to find the truth.
Do you believe that there is a possibility of you being wrong?
Sincerely, Daniel
[this is where the conversation diverged]
from William Stewart
to Daniel
date Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 4:55 AM
Daniel,
Sorry about the page "disappearing" like that. The host for
our site updated their servers, and only documents which
were online prior to the beginning of the process were
carried over to the new servers. Thus, anything after March
5 needed to be uploaded again. I have now done so. Thank you
for pointing it out to me.
If you will look through the ATA articles, you will note
that almost exclusively the articles deal with whether verse
A contradicts with verse B. This is a defense of the Bible,
not my personal faith. However, in the case of Legion's
rant, he did not speak against the Bible so much as against
my personal faith. If somewhere in his rant you can find a
Bible contradiction, please point it out to me. As such, in
my response, it was my faith which was primarily defended.
I understand that particular page does not fall in line with
the stated purpose of ATA. However, the attitude and claims
of Legion are not uncommon among those who are opponents to
the Bible (ie. Bible believers have a blind faith, are
promoting hatred and are ignorant). Thus, I thought it good
to respond to his rant in ATA, even though there was no
supposed Bible contradiction presented. I'm sorry that my
departure in this instant from the stated purpose of the
page offended you.
William> In answering "yes" to my question: "By "Scriptures," do
>from Daniel
>to William Stewart
>date Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 12:40 AM
>
> William,
>
> You state that I "ridicule" your reason for not fearing.
> The purpose my commentary was not in any way to ridicule,
> or laugh at, your reason. I think that you have
> overreacted. My purpose was to introduce to you my point
> of view, so you can consider my belief.
>> you mean the Bible (and not your faith)?" You have not> However, the development of my faith has been based upon
> provided me a logical reason. The reason I asked is
> because your response to Legion (which I am unable to
> access now on the web) appeared to me as if you are
> defending your own faith and your actions- your own
> beliefs - and not the "Scriptures," as I included here:
>
> My faith has not caged me, it has set me free."
>
> And here:
>
> You assume that I have not questioned the Bible. Please
> tell me, what do you know of my journey of faith? You are
> sorely mistaken in thinking that I have just accepted the
> Bible without questioning it. You are correct, to do so
> would be blind faith, which indeed would be ignorance.> evidence, not a blind leap.
>> It seems as there is no reference to any "Scriptures" or> MISSION<http://www.
> the "Bible" and that you are only stating your own beliefs
> , and that is not what is stated in your web site's
> mission statement "*OURlookinguntojesus.net/ > *"answering.htm > nor I see how that would help in answering the atheist. I> Sincerely, Daniel
> find your response to be contradicting with your purpose.
>
> I am sorry that I can not access the link previously
> pointing to your response to Legion; I also can not find
> it on the Web. I ask you to make the link available again.
>
>
from William Stewart
to Daniel
date Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 5:24 AM
Daniel,
I think your premise is incorrect. You are claiming that it
is ignorant to fear that which we do not have knowledge of.
If you will consider the nature of fear, I think you will
notice that it is the opposite of what you are claiming.
Prior to a couple weeks ago, I had not flown. I did not know
what the experience was like, and thus was fearful regarding
it. Was it ignorant for me to fear what I did not know
about?
Ever been in a haunted house at a fair or such? The basis
upon which the haunted house works is fear of the unknown.
I do not fear death, not because I do not know what it is,
but because I do know what it is. The Bible reveals what is
on the other side of death. If I walk in the Lord's way,
there is no reason to fear death.
Why did I accept? From the time I was a child, I believed in
God. My grandparents (who raised me) were not overly
religious, but regardless I sought to know about God. I
became a Christian at age 17. At that time, I simply
accepted the existence of God and the Bible as God's word.
Shortly thereafter, I began to investigate the authenticity
of the Bible; I began to look at evidence for the existence
of God; I began to seek proof of the resurrected Christ. My
faith is not just "I believe God exists and that the Bible
is His word", but is now based upon seeing evidence that
these things are so.
That's a very brief account, but hopefully complete enough
to answer your inquiry. May I ask why you reject the Bible
and the existence of God? I am assuming that you reject
both, since you will not even write the entire word "God"
(ie. G-d).
William
> from Daniel
> to William Stewart
> date Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 12:44 AM
>
> William,
>
> You asked me:
>
> Am I to understand that you do not fear death? If so, why
> not?
>
> Yes, you have understood me correctly. I do not fear
> death. To fear death means to claim to know what death is
> and therefore to claim to know that there is something to
> fear. To claim to know of something which one has not
> experienced is ignorant.
>
> I have a personal question for you. I realize that your
> acceptance is between you and G-d, so I do not expect an
> answer, and I will do my best as not to assume anything if
> you don't. I am sincerely curious: why did you accept?
>
> Sincerely, Daniel
>
>
> > from William Stewart
> > to Daniel
> > date Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 9:26 AM
> >
> > Daniel,
> >
> > Thanks for stopping by our site. You asked a couple of
> > questions, which I will answer herein.
> >
> > You asked:
> > By "Scriptures," do you mean the Bible (and not your
> > faith)?
> > Yes.
> >
> > You state that you share my opinion with regard to not
> > fearing death, but then ridicule my reason for not
> > fearing. I do not fear death, for I believe what the
> > Bible reveals about death. I am not assuming something
> > about the unknown. I am accepting what God's word
> > reveals.
> > Am I to understand that you do not fear death? If so,
> > why not? Do you KNOW what is beyond death? Have you been
> > there to see?
> >
> > You also asked:
> > By "defend," do you mean "Scriptures" (and not your, as
> > an individual's, favor in G-d's eye's)?
> >
> > Our intent with ATA is to defend the Bible by responding
> > to supposed contradictions. Your question didn't make
> > sense to me. By "defend", I mean "defend". What are we
> > "defending"? The "Scriptures".
> >
> > If you could clarify that question, then perhaps I can
> > give you a more complete response.
> >
> > William J. Stewart
> > Kingston, Ontario
> > www.lookinguntojesus.net
> >
> >
> > > Name: Daniel .
> > > Comment: To whom it may concern,
> > >
> > > I have two questions. After reading your response
> > > to a visitor's (Legion's) "RANT" (April 2, 2006 /
> > > Volume 6 , Issue 14:
> > > http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20060402.htm ) And
> > > your "OUR MISSION" statement
> > > (http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/answering.htm ), I had
> > > developed a few question that I hope you could answer.
> > > Your Mission Statement says that your mission is "to
> > > defend Scriptures effectively against Bible
> > > antagonists."
> > > You sated in your response to a visitor that "the
> > > development of my faith has been based upon evidence,
> > > not a blind leap." By "Scriptures," do you mean the
> > > Bible (and not your faith)?
> > > Also, I share your opinion in your "responding to
> > > supposed contradictions" in that "I am not afraid of
> > > death." I see why one would not be; one can not KNOW
> > > what death is, unless one has experienced it. However, this
> > > statement goes beyond reason "I am confident that when
> > > I die, I will go to a better place." To be sure in something
> > > that we do not know is to assume we know about it, and
> > > that is unwise. By "defend," do you mean "Scriptures"
> > > (and not your, as an individual's, favor in G-d's eye's)?
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Daniel,
> > >
> > > 14/04/2006 09:03:48
> >
>
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